Paradise Lost
Dark Sound Can Be Pleasurable

08.09.2013

British gothic metallers are celebrating a great anniversary this year, as it’s been 25 years since the band was founded in Halifax, England. Over the years, they have given the world a total of 13 studio album, surprising their fans by many different facets of their sound and inspiring a few generations of other bands – and there’s no doubt that they still have a lot to achieve and a lot of good music to make. Russian fans will soon be able to celebrate the anniversary together with the band at their upcoming shows, and while we all wait for this to happen, we teamed up with singer Nick Holmes to find out what he thinks about this jubilee, bicycle racing, inspiration and Twitter…

It’s been 25 years since you started your career. How does it feel to be in a band for so long?

Ehm, hum… I don’t know, really. When you get into this cycle of doing an album and then touring an album, years roll really fast. We’ve done it 13 times, 3 or 4 years at a time, so it goes pretty fast. It doesn’t seem much. And it’s also something we love to do, it’s not like taking a job…

Did you somehow celebrate your anniversary with your bandmates or family members?

No, we’re gonna do some special concerts, but celebrating… I don’t like that. I don’t really celebrate birthdays either. I don’t like to talk about my age as I get older. It’s just a number to me.

You’re going to play in Russia soon. What are your expectations of the upcoming shows in Russia?

We’re looking forward to playing some places we’ve never played before in Russia. It’s nice to play new places. We used to only play Moscow and St. Petersburg, so it’s nice to go to some other places and we’re looking forward to that. It’s cool to always travel to somewhere you’ve never been before.

Is there anything you’d like to experience in the new places?

I don’t know. I mean, when you first travel somewhere you can spend some time doing all this tourism and visiting everywhere, you can see the Red Square in Moscow, etc. But now when you tour you get less time for anything, you fly in and fly out. You don’t have time for tourism. Hopefully we’ll have time to see some things we haven’t, but probably we’ll just fly in and fly out, like we usually do now.

Yeah, your schedule is very packed, you play concerts almost every night. Isn’t it hard?

Yeah, it is. But that’s what you have to do now, because you can’t waste your time. It’s the same for everyone now. You have to work as hard as you can. Days-off cost money, you know…

It’s all about money… Feels like it’s really a very problematic issue for musicians nowadays.

You know, to earn a living from music, to earn a good living from music, it’s very-very difficult, yeah… We were established at the time when people did buy albums and we could make money from album sales. And the reason we’re still going is probably the result of that. But I think for new bands it’s increasingly difficult. You have to look at new opportunities where you can. I’m talking about earning a living, I’m not talking about being rich or millionaire, or a rock star. I’m just talking about earning a living. So yeah, it’s hard. Luckily we had time, like I said, when we could make a living from that. And now you just have to work harder. You have to play more, you have to tour more. I think we’re pretty lucky, it wasn’t that hard for us in the beginning. And now we’re doing like everyone else.

Did you dream of becoming a millionaire and a rock star when you started your career?

I’m still waiting for it to happen, you know!

So it still goes number 1 on the list of your goals, right?

I don’t think too far ahead, I can’t, you know. It’s not just my band life, it’s just me as a person. I don’t know what to say, we just take it as it comes, we don’t look too far ahead, ‘cause you don’t know what’s gonna come. I don’t expect anything, I’m a firm believer in what goes around comes around as well. People say, “What are your dreams?” – I don’t have dreams. Not like that anyway, not long-term. We will see… Good things happen, bad things happen, you know. It’s just life, you’ve got to do your best and see what happens.

Okay, then what do you yourself consider your greatest achievements of these 25 years?

I think we’ve been very-very lucky, we’ve had a lot of luck. We’ve also worked pretty hard, we’ve met a lot of great, fantastic artists that we’ve always admired and we’ve got to meet people from all over the world. And I think our greatest achievement is just being around and still being in a professional band after 25 years without becoming a household name, cause we’re not a household name. So I think staying at this level, that alone for me personally is a great achievement.

And what about disappointments? I remember that Gregor (Mackintosh, guitar) wasn’t satisfied with your album “Believe in Nothing” (2011), for example. Are there any things that you’re not happy about?

My only regret for anything the band’s done is not about albums. My only regret is that we didn’t concentrate on touring the States in the early 90s. We didn’t spend any time there. And if we had done that, we probably could go there every tour and do quite well, but we never did and we don’t have much quantity in the States as a result of that. So my only regret with the band is that we didn’t go to America when we had a chance to do so. We’ve been there many times since, but it’s not the same. We’ve missed the boat, so to speak. We could have done that as a lot of our peers did, and they enjoyed quite great success there, but we didn’t. And as far as our albums go, I don’t think that “Believe in Nothing” is a particularly great album, but I think it’s just how we were at that time. I can’t regret any albums we’ve made because it felt right at that time. You can only think about albums made in retrospect, you know, if they are good or bad. But it doesn’t really matter because it was right for its time, the time when it was made.

Talking about your albums, I read your Twitter and someone asked you about new material. Then you replied that it’s ready when you start writing it. Don’t you write anything when on tour?

No. Greg is working on Vallenfyre, he’s doing a Vallenfyre album at the moment, I believe. So he has to start writing new Paradise Lost material yet, and when he starts then I will start. It’s gonna be in the next few months probably, I expect. But I don’t do it on the road, it’s not the right environment for me personally. I don’t like that. There’s nothing on the road that can make you especially creative. (laughs) I’d much rather be at home, in more stable environment.

What makes you feel creative then?

Stable environment. (laughs) When I can come and go… Like a place where I can make a cup of tea when I want to make a cup of tea and where I can get food when I want to eat. I like to be at home and write, I don’t like to be somewhere else… But it depends… If we have a deadline and I have to write some lyrics on an airplane, then okay, I would try that. But it’s not for me. I’d much rather be in a stable sort of place. I don’t like being miserable, being miserable is not creative, it’s destructive. It’s much better to be in a good mood, so you could do better… For me, you know, it’s my opinion. I think being miserable is a negative thing and everything negative is not creative. That’s how I feel about that.

And where do you get your ideas from?

There are those little things that happen… I can have a confrontation with someone I didn’t expect to have it. It can turn into a song about what makes one angry about the situation and about some little things that become big things. I always find it fascinating why it did become a big thing and how people handle the situation… I’m just interested in this human aspect, you know. And it doesn’t get easier as you get older. You think you know how to do right, but then you go and mess some things up by something you said… So I think getting older and seeing if things change or don’t change, all those aspects will give me something to write about… There’s something happening every day, so…

Your albums used to be very diverse music-wise. Do you somehow choose your musical direction for every new record? What does it depend on?

We don’t really. We just start writing and we see what happens. It’s pretty difficult to start a new album and to know where you wanna go with it. You write about 4 or 5 songs and you get a feel for the rest of the album. It’s always difficult to start. It’s like trying to get a big snowball off the cliff top, you just can push it. Once it gets going, it’s okay, but getting it up is really hard. Especially after 13 albums, you don’t wanna repeat yourself, and no matter how much you try to be different you still sound like Paradise Lost, ‘cause that’s our sound… It’s always like that. The starting point is always tough.

You’ve worked in so many genres, from death metal to synth pop. Are there any other things that you still want to try with your music?

As the band… It depends more on Greg because Greg writes our music, so it’s more like what he’s into at that point. If he was listening to flamenco music, there’d be some flamenco in our music. But all he seems to listen to is death metal at the moment, so I would expect something a bit heavier than the last album. But I don’t know. It depends. And I personally would like to do an acoustic album, I’d like to do like a real orchestra type of album. But if people hate it, there’s no point. That’s the matter of what’s right for Paradise Lost. When you write heavy metal music, there are restrictions and I don’t see the point in being difficult or sound weird for the sake of it, if the songs are rubbish… It’s no point in being, you know, “alternative” if it’s crap. So it’s all about good songs and I don’t know what else to say yet. It’s not good to speculate of new music before it’s created.

You said you don’t want to do something if people may hate it. Are you always that worried about negative feedback? Does it matter that much?

Yeah, obviously. Of course it does. If something is rubbish and I think it’s rubbish, then fans will think it’s rubbish.

And what if you think it’s the greatest album you’ve ever done and the reaction is not very positive?

Then I would feel like I’m probably a little bit deluded. Because generally speaking your fans like the music you like. When we started the band, we were very much like-minded with the people listening to our music and coming to our concerts, and I don’t think that has changed too much. ‘Cause a lot of bands I like, all those people like those bands as well, and they like Paradise Lost as well. So it’s all about being like-minded. If you think you’ve done the best thing ever and your fans think it’s rubbish, you’re really being deluded, I think. I’m not saying that you write songs for people, you have to do that for your own heart, but if everybody says something’s crap, maybe they have the point. (laughs)

Sure! Okay, I wanted to talk a bit more about your Twitter. It’s seems to be a popular means of communication between artists and their fans nowadays. And it sometimes gives a kind of “insight” into famous people’s personal lives. You share some information that has nothing to do with the band and your musical career too. About spiders behind your sofa (or where was it?) and all that kind of stuff…

I agree with you, but you don’t really find anything about my personal life on my Twitter. I just talk a little rubbish on that.

Then what’s the purpose of having it?

I like to have a laugh, you know. A lot of times it’s defense mechanism with me as well. I can turn everything into a joke, even if I have to deal with a serious situation. But now my friend Matt Archer, who used to be our drummer, is on there, and it’s getting worse. We used to have a real laugh when we were kids, you can’t mess around with him. No, I know exactly what you mean, but it’s just like thinking out loud. And I think silly things all the time. And Twitter is my out loud. But at the same time I don’t say particularly personal things, I just say things that everybody does. It’s a bit of fun. If people want serious information, you’d better off going to the website. My Twitter doesn’t really represent anybody else in the band, it’s just me talking rubbish. But I forget how many people read it. That’s the thing, you forget that… It’s almost like it’s my little diary, then I realize that it’s public. Twitter can be dangerous if you tweet after you’ve been drinking. These times are potentially dangerous.

What can happen then?

You can say something risky, some thing you shouldn’t have said. I mean it happens all the time. You might say something awkward… I never mind being stupid, I like being stupid, it’s good fun. But when you’re kind of slagging other people, or you maybe upset people, that kind of things - you’ve got to be careful with that. I don’t wanna have an argument with someone at the airport and be removed from a flight because of something I said on Twitter. That kind of thing happens now. I think you’ve got to be careful.

Some time ago you took part in a charity bicycle ride (Heavy Metal Truants Charity Bike Ride). How did you happen to join it?

I was asked to do it. It was Rod Smallwood, Iron Maiden manager. They wanted a team of guys to do a cycle race for charity. It was a cycle ride from London to Donnington Park, prior to the beginning of the Download festival. So I was asked to participate… I’m a keen cyclist anyway, and it was brilliant, absolutely brilliant, it was really good fun. It was like 160 miles, but we did it over 3 days, so it wasn’t too difficult. You are meeting new people, meeting new friends, so it’s really-really good, I enjoyed it. I raised personally about 2500 pounds and I think the whole thing raised like 60 000 pounds, maybe more, so it was really good to do that.

Would you like to do anything like that again?

Yeah, I’d like to do more when I go around the world, for the rest of my life and just not come back. I like anything that involves traveling and potential danger. I used to be into motorcycling as well and I did a motorcycle charity ride in Australia in 1995 as well. I mean, 3 days is cool but I like to do something that lasts a little longer. But it’s expensive to do such a thing, you know. (laughs)

Do you enjoy any other sports?

Not really. I’m really into cycling, but I don’t particularly enjoy watching it, I like the physical aspect. I’ve been cycling for years. I like to run as well… But I’m not into football like everyone else, I’m not interested in it. I feel like an outcast sometimes, ‘cause I’ve nothing to talk about when all my friends talk about football. I can’t join the conversation.

Are there any other things that you are interested in?

Not really. Just cycling, drinking and music. That’s it. I’m into computer as well. I like gadgets.

What are the things you’re most happy about in your current situation with the band?

I’m not really happy about anything, but I think I’ve been really lucky to do what I do for a career. It’s just the career I wanted to do and I feel lucky to be able to do it, it’s not something I have to do, like a lot of people I know. I enjoy the fact that at my age I can still do the same and hopefully I can do that as long as I’m able to. I feel lucky now that I’m looking at it. It’s also hard as you get older to do music as well because it’s pretty much the young men’s kind of thing. That thought is kind of hair-rising, “how long we can do this”, etc. That’s a little bit scary. But I feel lucky that I’m doing what I wanted to do. And if it stops tomorrow, I can still say, “Well, you know, we’ve been doing it for 25 years”. It’s never too late to do it 9 to 5 in the office.

And if it stops tomorrow, what else can you do?

I can’t do anything. I’ll have to take a voluntary euthanasia, ‘cause there’s nothing I can do. I’m unemployable. I don’t know if you’re familiar with “Logan’s Run” the film or the book, where they just explode when they get to a certain age. I’ll have to do that, ‘cause I can’t do anything else. I’m gonna work at McDonalds. No, you can’t even work at McDonalds now, you need to have about 5 qualifications. (laughs) Oh, I just don’t wanna think about it.

Don’t you want to try anything outside Paradise Lost? Any side-projects?

Yeah, if it felt right, if it was fun, you know. I think to do best, to do any project, it’s got to be fun. I don’t mean Paradise Lost isn’t fun, but it’s still very much our career, there’s a lot more to keep me working all day. If something’s just fun, if it’s like the equivalent of going to a pub perhaps… Yeah, why not? So far there hasn’t been that much opportunity for that. But if there’s anything that can fit with the Paradise Lost schedule, then fine, why not. Like Adrian (Erlandsson), our drummer, he has many-many side projects... But as long as it all fits with what we’re doing, I’m happy, it’s fine with me.

Could you say a couple of words to your Russian fans?

We’re looking forward to playing, like I said in the beginning, some places that we haven’t played before. I’d like to do more shows around Russia as well, perhaps in the future. So we’re especially looking forward to playing those places, but obviously Moscow and St. Petersburg as well. So we’re looking forward to that, as always. It’s always cool to come to Russia, even though we can’t stay there long.

Well, and I’ve got the last question to ask you today: Why such a cheerful person that “likes to have a laugh” is into this kind of music that is supposed to be quite dark and has nothing funny about it?

I said I like jokes, but I’ve got very dark sense of humor, so the things I like are usually… You know, I’m into dark humor, I’m into black comedy, that’s the kind of humor I have. I think the music we make and the music I listen to is very fitting to that. And at the same time I think the music you like doesn’t really reflect what you are as a person, it’s just music. You don’t have to always be sad if you like miserable music. And I think any kind of music is supposed to be pleasurable. Even if it has a dark sound, it can still be pleasurable.

Paradise Lost on the Internet: http://www.paradiselost.co.uk

Special thanks to Alexei Kuzovlev for arranging this interview

Ksenia Artamonova
July 31, 2013
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