Flotsam And Jetsam
On Par With Classics

20.12.2021

My interview with Michael Gilbert, guitarist of renown U.S. thrashers Flotsam and Jetsam, was scheduled for June 1. But the day before the website you’re currently reading had the most devastating collapse over almost 15 years of its existence, and when we were talking, it was still unclear whether it could even be brought back up. This was followed by a series of personal setbacks, and I was only able to continue working on this material six months later. Maybe some of the things we said that day is no longer relevant, but it only serves to show that it’s typical of humans to make mistakes – how naïve both Michael and me were when we spoke about the approaching end of the pandemic! However, as we more or less survived the crisis on the website scale, there’s still hope that we will be able to survive the global crisis, too. Anyway, apart from COVID-related maters, we spoke in detail about "Blood in the Water", Flotsam and Jetsam’s latest album, and a very solid one indeed, as well as about some episodes of the band’s 40-year-long history.

My name is Pavel or it's Paul in English, and I'm very honored to talk to you today.

Awesome! Looking forward to do it, man! How's everything going?

Well, we have summer now, so everything's fine. The weather's fine and everything apart from Corona is awesome. I must say it's my first interview after the Corona virus outbreak so I apologize for my English today because I haven't been practicing for a while. Before we start talking about your new album and music could you please tell me how do you cope with all this corona shit - like tours being postponed, shows cancelled and stuff.

Yeah, it's been crazy and it's a terrible thing but it was actually kind of a blessing for us, because we recorded our record during all this pandemic stuff. You can't go out, you can't do anything so we just stay home and write music and record and that was pretty much of it, you know. No one’s being able to go to shows, it's been pretty bad. You know, the music business can't get over it financially because a lot of bands like us rely on touring and we weren't able to do it for over a year. So now the things are opening back up and shows are starting to happen so it seems there is a huge wave of concerts that are going on and people are just champing at the bit to get out, you know. So I'm glad it's at the tail end of it and it's over, and I’m looking forward.to get back up there. Hopefully, we'll come to see you guys soon!

Yeah, we are looking forward to see Flotsam and Jetsam here in Russia. You've never played here so far, am I right?

At least not while I've been in the band. I took a hiatus for a few years and I don't think they were there while I was gone either so I'm pretty sure that we've never done any Russian dates.

So do you have any plans in the future to visit us?

Yes, we do, we're trying right now to book that, but as all these other bands are booking shows it's difficult right now because everybody's gonna be touring, so like I said it's gonna be a wave of bands out there because everybody's been champing at the bit to get out. Hopefully we'll get there soon and we could meet you guys. I would like to go there, it's kind of what's on my bucket list for sure.

I know that lots of bands were playing online concerts during the corona lockdown. Have you done anything like that? I don't have any information about it.

No, Flotsam didn't do anything. We did kind of...with one of our old drummers, Jason Bittner, we did a little bit of a reunion, we just played one song and just kind of had some fun and put that out there, you know, made a video for it. But I mean we were just having fun, but no real Flotsam shows were we streaming.

Ok, let's talk now about the forthcoming album you've just going to release, I guess, this Friday, yep?

Yes, "Blood in the Water". It seems that it's gonna be our best release ever, I'm really, really excited about it and the work that the rest of my bandmates have done on it, I think it's by far our best record. And I'm not just saying it, you know, 'cause all musicians say, "Oh, our new record is the best record we've ever done". I really believe this is our best effort, and the records following up to this: we had our self-titled record, then we had "The End of Chaos" and then "Blood in the Water" - this is like a trilogy. If I was gonna introduce people to the band those are the three records I would suggest first: the self-titled, then "The End of Chaos" and then "Blood in the Water", and that's really what's defining Flotsam and Jetsam right now.

My personal favorites off the album are "The Wicked Hour" and "Undone", and what about yours?

Oh, my favorite one on it is "Reaggression". I like that one because it's got like an emotional part in the middle of it, and it's really fast and then it drops down and it has a breakdown section that's tasty, I guess you could say. Kind of an emotional part. So that's my favorite one.

And what about the album's sound? I guess it sounds rather modern than old-school, I mean, there's no scratches, itches and all this lo-fi thing that is in a trend now among thrash metal bands especially the young ones that copy the raw sound of early Slayer or, what's even worse, early Kreator or Sodom. So why did you decide to make the record sound like it sounds? Didn't you think of following this trend of lo-fi metal sound that is widespread now?

Well, that really wasn't in our thoughts, that wasn't something that we tried to do. It was more like that we played our parts, we got the best console we possibly could for the record. And then when we finished recording, we send everything over to Sweden, to Jacob Hansen. He did the mix on it and then it's just the way it came out. We were more than happy, we were ecstatic about the way the sound on the record came out. We think it's sonically our best sounding record as well.

You’ve mentioned "The End of Chaos", and the new album in my opinion follows the same direction as the previous one. Could you please tell us about the main differences between these two in your opinion?

Oh, so that's a great question because, you know, we had a lot of really, really positive reviews and the record was very well taken, I mean, "The End of Chaos" was. So when we decided to start writing for "Blood in the Water" that was what we figured to be our biggest task: to follow up that record. By the time we finished the songwriting and the recording on it we realized that if nothing else we made something that was equal to "The End of Chaos" if not better. In my personal opinion, I think "Blood in the Water" is a lot better. But, you know, to have the same direction - like these records sound consecutively, they belong together - was something we were trying to do as well. We didn't want to make something that sounded completely different from "The End of Chaos", we wanted it, just like you said, to be the follow-up to it.

On the other hand I remember when "The End of Chaos" came out some guys on the Internet were complaining that this album was more like power metal than thrash metal. What will you respond to such listeners, first of all? And don't you think that you might get the same complaints about the new album because, as we've said, it's a follow-up to "The End of Chaos"?

You know, so far we haven't any complaints. And that's fine if people wanna nick that stuff and say, "Oh, this is not a thrash band anymore". You know what? If the music's good, the music is good, you know. And it doesn't matter for any band, you're always gonna have the people that are gonna criticize it, the naysayers and stuff, you're always gonna get a few of them. But generally that record came across very successful for us and you can't please everybody all the time, I guess, right?

Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I think that a good song is always a good song and a catchy chorus is a catchy chorus, if this is thrash metal, or whatever metal, or no metal at all. So as far as I know it's your first album to feature a new bass player. So could you tell a bit about him, about Bill Bodily? Did he contribute to the songwriting?

Yes. Bill sat in for shows on the American tour with us. Michael Spencer couldn't do shows so we ended up hiring Bill to come out and he actually did the whole tour with us. So it's kind of no-brainer when we parted ways with Michael Spencer then Bill got the job, we get along with him fabulously. He is a great bass player, he is a funny dude, he looks cool, so we were like, "Let's get Bill, he's part of the family anyway”. Yeah, definitely it was no-brainer to get him, he's fantastic. You can hear him, check the record out, Bill, you’ll hear him, he is great.

So did he contribute to the songwriting, or did he only play his parts?

He came in on the later part of the album and the songs were pretty much complete so he didn't contribute to the songwriting on this one but he will on the next one.

Let's continue talking about your rhythm section. A few years ago Jason Bittner joined Overkill and was replaced by famous drummer Ken Mary. Could you please tell us, who is a better drummer? I have never seen Ken playing live although he worked with numerous bands and the only time I saw Jason was shortly after he joined Overkill, but it definitely wasn't the best Overkill show I’ve seen. So who is a better drummer?

You know, I can't answer that. They're both fantastic drummers, over-the-top players, they're both monsters behind the drums. When Bittner called me and said, "Hey, I got offered the Overkill gig", I was like, "Dude, you gotta go do that, that's a gig you can't refuse, go for it". You know, he is from New York, so he fits in with those guys very well. “Definitely do to that gig, dude, totally”. Then we asked Ken to sit in for the European tour that we were doing. And when we were done with that we knew Ken was gonna be the guy. That guy is absolute monster on the drums, I mean, you hear it on "Blood in the Water", it's phenomenal drumming. And he is a powerhouse guy, he is a great songwriter, a great singer, he is the Swiss Army knife of our band.

Heh, a good comparison! Let's now discuss some moments of the band's long history. "Doomsday for the Deceiver" (1986) is kind of a thrash metal milestone, but in the 90s you moved to a more groovy and, let's say, even alternative sound like a lot of bands did during those times. Personally I like the "Drift" and "High" albums a lot, but what do you think about those albums after all these years?

They consider the first record and the second record classics, there are songs on those two records that we have to always play live, or it pisses people off. (laughs) But "Drift", and "Cuatro", and "High"... you know, we were changing stuff because metal was like not cool to play anymore, it was almost a curse to be in a metal band back then. So we kind of moved the music a little bit and got off the thrash feel and tried to write just heavy rock songs, still to keep it fast and everything like that, but a little bit melodic going on. I still love those records but a lot of the fans, they tend to shy away from that, they tend to go back to the classic records. And that's the good thing about "Blood in the Water", it seems that the people that really love the first two classic records, they’re locking on to "The End of Chaos" and "Blood in the Water" also, which makes me very, very happy.

This brings us to the next question: if you say that you pretty much followed the flow of the musical evolution in the 90s, what brought you back to a more straightforward thrash metal we can hear on the last two albums? Was that return natural or are you following the trends again?

No, very natural. It seems like metal started making a resurgence after the 90s, it kind of had a rebirth. That's just the way I write, and the way Steve (Conley, guitar) writes, and the way we all write now, starting from the self-titled record and then "The End of Chaos", and then "Blood on the Water". I think the self-titled record was our actual rebirth. It might have even been "Ugly Noise" but you know, these latest three that we've done also belong together.

Well, let's talk about "Ugly Noise" a bit later because I have some questions concerning it and I love this album a lot. But now it is time for a question, I guess, you had like 1000 times but still I have to ask it. What were your reasons to leave the band after "High" and why did you decide to rejoin the band in 2010? And what were you doing between those years?

Ok. Well, when the record "High", when we were making it, there was a lot of conflict going on in the band at that time. Number 1 problem was the management. I had conflicts with the management and I had issues with this record, you know. The music on it is good but I didn't like the name of the album, I didn't like the message, and I didn't like the artwork. I was like, “|I don't wanna be a part of this, this needs to be a lot more professional looking”. If you go back and look on the artwork on it, it's a little bit cheesy. And my voice didn't really count at the time, and I just said, "Ok, peace out, guys, I'm done". And I went and did my own thing, raised the family. And I ended up rejoining, A.K. (vocals) called me up some years later and said, "Dude, the band's not the same without you, we ditched our management, and this is what we got. Do you wanna do it?". I said: "Alright, man, let's go, let's do it." So I rejoined and then we made "Ugly Noise" and started making records again.

So it's time to talk about "Ugly Noise" because... I guess, you'll be surprised but it's my favorite Flotsam and Jetsam album.

Oh, thank you!

Yeah, it's really one of my favorite ones thrash metal albums. Even it's not so thrash, I enjoy it. My first question about it is: was it hard to record this album after the hiatus you had taken?

No. I mean, we did things a little bit differently because we were recording in our home studios and passing files around. And it was pretty easy, I had most of the music already written, around 90% written before we even decided to make a record. Because I still wrote music when I had some time off. And I actually contacted Newsted (Jason Newsted, ex-bassist) at the time and said, "Dude, do you want anything to do with this? You know, I've got these tunes, do you want to play on them, do you wanna help me write?". And he got right back and he said, "Dude, this is killer!". You know, "Ugly Noise", he wrote the lyrics for that, he wrote the lyrics for "Gitty Up". He was a part of the project as long as he could be. I wish he would've played on it but he couldn't. So we got Jason Ward to play on it, another fantastic bass player. And it's just kind of history after that. It’s kind of a different record for us, but I'm really proud of it, I think that it came out very good.

Ok, you've just answered my second question concerning this album because I was wandering about the role of Jason Newsted in this record. Let me ask you now some personal and professional questions because I know that you are a very skilled guitar player. What is your gear now and has it changed a lot since the 80s?

It has changed quite a bit. I used to play Gibson Les Paul Standard 1960 Reissue, that was my main guitar for many, many years, and Gibson Flying V. And pre-amplification was Mesa Boogie Triaxis and a Mesa Boogie power amp. But this thing came along called the Kemper Profiler. And it was very, very easy to use, it was efficient and it sounded great. So it's been by main amplifier, Kemper Profiler and I just sampled my Triaxis tones into that. All my amps go on to a USB stick now which is very convenient to go to Europe. You don't have to take any gear, you just take a USB stick and then plug it in, and your amp is there, you know. Technology is pretty great when it comes to the amplifiers these days.

Yeah, I agree. And what about the guitar, do you still play the same Les Paul Standard?

No. Here is a story behind that. I was in Greece, we flew in to Athens. I was sitting in the window during unloading of the luggage, and I'm sitting looking out the window and I saw the service person throw the guitar. It didn't even land on the luggage trailer, it flew over the luggage trailer and landed on the asphalt in the airport. And my heart just dropped, you know. I said, "Oh my God, my Les Paul's gonna be broken". I get it back, and I'm looking at it and all that happened to it was a tuning peg bend. I was like, "Thank God that it didn't break the neck or anything". So I retired that guitar, that guitar does not wanna roam with me anymore. And now I'm using ESPs, a little more efficient tuners, a little bit lighter, they sound great. So yeah, I'm using the LTD and ESP, that’s what it is.

Yeah, I understand you, especially about throwing the instruments in the plane's luggage...that's really a problem. And the necks of Gibson Les Pauls are also a problem...

Les Pauls are such great guitars. They sound so great, and they feel great but I gotta protect it, you know. Protect it like I protect my babies. (laughs)

I got it! Flotsam and Jetsam have always had two guitar players as far as I remember the band's history. There have been a lot of guitar players through the band's history. So who was or who is the most comfortable partner for you?

So far it is Steve Conley, the other guitar player. We play really well together. There is a chemistry with us, there is a dynamic, there is some competition, and we push each other, you know, we drive each other. He is a great guitar player, I'm learning stuff from him all the time. I don't know if he learns anything from me, maybe, but there is definitely some good chemistry.

Ok, and what about other guys, can you mark out someone else for some outstanding performance?

I played with Mark (Vazquez) for a brief time, not enough time to really lock on to each other’s playing. I did play with Ed Carlson for many years and... eh... he's a great guitar player too, a big part of the history of Flotsam. But he parted ways with the band and he's doing his own thing now. I'm very thankful that Steve accepted the position because I feel most comfortable with him.

So, as we've talked in the beginning of our interview, the Corona stuff seems to be over. What are your touring plans for the forthcoming year? I mean, 2022 or even 2021?

Yes, we have dates lined up with Accept, and I know Accept is coming to Russia, but we are not gonna be on those dates unfortunately. I was hoping that we would be but we're not. So we’re gonna have to come to Russia headlining our own dates, I guess. Right now we are just starting to book. It's really difficult to book gigs because there's so many bands booking gigs right now. It's crazy! We plan on touring as much as possible. You know, in the past we would tour for maybe 4 months out of the year, and I’m h    oping we would bring that up to maybe 6 months or 8 months out of the year of doing dates. There's a lot of places that we need to play. We need to go to Russia, we need to go to South America, Australia, we need to do Japan again, we need to keep doing Europe and the United States, and Canada as well.

Ok, so hope to see you in Russia. I hope that the borders between Russia and the European Union, and other countries soon will be open and we'll have the chance to see you somewhere in the festivals because I'm very sad I missed one of your shows at Wacken few years ago. You were playing the first day as far as I remember and we got to the camping very late to see you.

Ehhh, we’re gonna have to play Wacken again some time, I hope, and then maybe you can catch us there or in Russia, it will be great! I'm looking forward to meet you in person, you're having a beer without me right now, when I get to Russia, you'll have a beer with me, right?

Ok, cheers! Agreed. By the way, we compare festivals like Wacken and club venues, which ones do you prefer?

Emmmm.... I love the big shows, but there's an element of… you’re kind of disengaged a little bit, you know, rather than in the smaller shows the people are right there in front of you and it's really easy to engage with the audience when they're right there as opposed to being 40 feet away, you know. So I do like that but I also love looking down at a sea of 15,000 people too, you know, that's a pretty big rush. (laughs)

Yeah, I see. As long as we're talking about touring and you've been touring like since 80s, do you have some cool stories from the tours?

Yeah, I've got scary stories, man! Last time we were in Belgium, we were driving on a bus, and there’s Destruction and another band called Enforcer on the bus with us. And somebody woke up, they’re like: "Hey, does anybody smell smoke?" And then everybody started waking up, because they smelled smoke... our bus got on fire while we were driving! The motor went up in flames. So we were stuck out in the middle of Belgium, nothing around, nothing anywhere, just on a side of a freeway with a burning bus!

Well, that's a story, man! Yeah, it's really scary.

Over the years, I got tons, and tons, and tons of stories about stuff. It seems like every day something different happens, especially going out with those Overkill guys, you know. We did a tour with them in Europe last year. And every day...like we should have been in jail every day, you know, just for the dumb stuff that we were doing. It's great!

Hope to hear some more stories from you when we meet here in Russia and drink some beers.

Oh yeah, absolutely!

It was really nice to talk to you. Could you please tell some kind words for your Russian audience and the readers of HeadBanger.ru?

Absolutely! We're really looking forward to coming and visiting Russia this year. We're gonna do our best to make that happen and bring "Blood in the Water" to you guys and show Russia what Flotsam and Jetsam is all about at a live show. I'm really, really looking forward to meeting some of the Russian fans and talking with everybody!

Flotsam and Jetsam on the Internet: https://www.flotstildeath.com/

Special thanks to Irina Ivanova (AFM Records) for arranging this interview

Pavel Vlasov
June 1, 2021
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